Are you considering leaving SA?

[Bryn]

Where are you going, let's google that?

At this stage, looks like Wellington, NZ. Currently ranked the 5th safest city in the world.

The homicide rate is ~1.5 per 100,000 nationally in NZ. The Western Cape is over 59 per 100,000.

You can't surely think the murder and rape levels in South Africa are more or less normal?

 

[dabean]

Internal vs external locus of control.

 

[biometrics]

At this stage, looks like Wellington, NZ. Currently ranked the 5th safest city in the world.

The homicide rate is ~1.5 per 100,000 nationally in NZ. The Western Cape is over 59 per 100,000.

You can't surely think the murder and rape levels in South Africa are more or less normal?

You do know most of it happens in the townships, right? Sorry for them, it must be terrible. But does not affect me. I feel perfectly safe in SA.

 

[dabean]

We all get to pick the hill we die on. Other choices are equally valid.

 

[biometrics]

We all get to pick the hill we die on. Other choices are equally valid.

Of course. I just find it annoying when expats do the justification thing and feel the need to tell us how wrong we are for not wanting to leave.

 

[Bryn]

Of course. I just find it annoying when expats do the justification thing and feel the need to tell us how wrong we are for not wanting to leave.

I don't think expats and people in the process of moving are condemning anyone who opts not to. But if a reason provided for emigrating is dramatically improved personal safety, that's just a fact for the most popular destinations. There are plenty of valid reasons to stay, from family to friends to finances and so on. That's not really the discussion.

My point about the Atlas crime reports for my suburb is to show that it isn't just townships. My very nice area has a lot of crime, and poor areas must be way worse. And if the SA crime stats lists my police station as having less crime reported than Hermanus, I'm guessing there's a lot going on that you're not aware of. Joining my neighbourhood's community group on WhatsApp was certainly eye opening, as I would never have thought so much drama goes down nearby every day.

 

[biometrics]

I don't think expats and people in the process of moving are condemning anyone who opts not to. But if a reason provided for emigrating is dramatically improved personal safety, that's just a fact for the most popular destinations. There are plenty of valid reasons to stay, from family to friends to finances and so on. That's not really the discussion.

My point about the Atlas crime reports for my suburb is to show that it isn't just townships. My very nice area has a lot of crime, and poor areas must be way worse. And if the SA crime stats lists my police station as having less crime reported than Hermanus, I'm guessing there's a lot going on that you're not aware of. Joining my neighbourhood's community group on WhatsApp was certainly eye opening, as I would never have thought so much drama goes down nearby every day.

So, have you personally experienced crime or violence? I've only experienced it once (I'm 52) and that was a burglary where they stole my hifi, in 1989.

 

[biometrics]

@Bryn I see Wellington might not have problems with crime but it's not problem free, issues like traffic congestion, water quality and alcoholism to name a few. So I hope crime isn't the only factor you consider.

 

[Bryn]

So, have you personally experienced crime or violence? I've only experienced it once (I'm 52) and that was a burglary where they stole my hifi, in 1989.

I have been affected by close friends and family suffering violent crime, but have not suffered it personally. Some of those who were directly affected were never the same again. I'm not waiting around until it's my turn, or even worse, the turn for someone in my immediate family.

I only need the Atlas reports and daily input in the WhatsApp community group to know that the odds of something happening are much higher than I previously assumed.

And it's more than just my home. It's the shops, social venues, hiking trails, other nature stuff, meeting clients at their offices etc. I have to always be hyper vigilant. Always check in mentally with where the family is, whether they are on time with their expected movements, make quick phone calls to say hi when actually I just want to make sure that things are good their side.

For me, utopia is any society where the risk of violence is negligible. Whatever other business and life stresses await I can handle just fine.

 

[Bryn]

@Bryn I see Wellington might not have problems with crime but it's not problem free, issues like traffic congestion, water quality and alcoholism to name a few. So I hope crime isn't the only factor you consider.

As I mentioned previously, I really don't much care about the other issues. Risk of a violent death is not on par with worse traffic. I can buy a house in a convenient spot, filter water like I already do, I'm not a drinker or bar fly etc.

 

[biometrics]

I have been affected by close friends and family suffering violent crime, but have not suffered it personally. Some of those who were directly affected were never the same again. I'm not waiting around until it's my turn, or even worse, the turn for someone in my immediate family.

I only need the Atlas reports and daily input in the WhatsApp community group to know that the odds of something happening are much higher than I previously assumed.

And it's more than just my home. It's the shops, social venues, hiking trails, other nature stuff, meeting clients at their offices etc. I have to always be hyper vigilant. Always check in mentally with where the family is, whether they are on time with their expected movements, make quick phone calls to say hi when actually I just want to make things are good their side.

For me, utopia is any society where the risk of violence is negligible. Whatever other business and life stresses await I can handle just fine.

I'm sorry your family experienced crime. None of my family has.

 

[satanboy]

How many earthquakes does Wellington have a year?
14,000 earthquakes

The largest city within the highest-risk zone is the nation's capital, Wellington, followed by Hastings then Napier. All these cities have experienced severe earthquakes since European settlement. About 14,000 earthquakes occur in and around the country each year, of which between 150 and 200 are big enough to be felt.

 

[satanboy]

 

[Sinbad]

Of course. I just find it annoying when expats do the justification thing and feel the need to tell us how wrong we are for not wanting to leave.

There's no denying personal safety forms a part of the decision for many people - but everyone is living their own lives and if you want to stay in SA, then that's 100% your choice and no-one else's business. Everyone has their own perception of reality and is entitled to pursue their own desires - be they in SA or elsewhere. We're all different and have different experiences of life and different tolerances for various risks.
I'll never tell someone they're wrong for not wanting to leave - most of my immediate family is in SA with no intention to leave so I still have to hope that the country pulls itself together (my opinion) and that they stay safe and happy.

 

[Johnatan56]

At this stage, looks like Wellington, NZ. Currently ranked the 5th safest city in the world.

The homicide rate is ~1.5 per 100,000 nationally in NZ. The Western Cape is over 59 per 100,000.

You can't surely think the murder and rape levels in South Africa are more or less normal?

That 5th safest in the world is heavily biased as there are only 60 cities there. Tried looking up Berlin, Vienna, Munich; they are not in the list.

View attachment 12300

Still find that report biased though, but most of the reports are all like that.

 

[Bryn]

How many earthquakes does Wellington have a year?
14,000 earthquakes

The largest city within the highest-risk zone is the nation's capital, Wellington, followed by Hastings then Napier. All these cities have experienced severe earthquakes since European settlement. About 14,000 earthquakes occur in and around the country each year, of which between 150 and 200 are big enough to be felt.

I'll take my chances against Wellington earthquakes over criminals in SA. I did a quick Google and it seems the risk of death can be rounded to zero.

 

[biometrics]

I'll take my chances against Wellington earthquakes over criminals in SA. I did a quick Google and it seems the risk of death can be rounded to zero.

Everyone must do what is best for them. But I question your stats based approach to where to go. Hope you included the weather in that equation. Looks kinda cold there.

 

[LD50]

I must congratz these 2. It could have exploded into something very fugly

 

[Bryn]

Everyone must do what is best for them. But I question your stats based approach to where to go. Hope you included the weather in that equation. Looks kinda cold there.

Wellington has nice weather.

"Averaging 2,055 hours of sunshine per year, the climate of Wellington is temperate marine, generally moderate all year round with warm summers and mild winters."
- Wiki

 

[biometrics]

Wellington has nice weather.

"Averaging 2,055 hours of sunshine per year, the climate of Wellington is temperate marine, generally moderate all year round with warm summers and mild winters."
- Wiki

I find 22C a degree too cold. 23C is perfect. I wouldn't be happy in Wellington re weather. Maybe you like wearing a jacket/jersey all year round?