Cryptocurrencies

biometrics

biometrics

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SoldierMan said:
Sorry haven't been following but are you saying that Bitcoin is a ponzi?
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Yes. Just a more complicated scheme. This has been the most successful scam in history.

No worries, should be dead in a few years. Another scam will rise from the ashes.
 
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SoldierMan

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biometrics said:
Yes. Just a more complicated scheme. This has been the most successful scam in history.

No worries, should be dead in a few years. Another scam will rise from the ashes.
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But how is it a ponzi, in a ponzi you need the new money to feed the earlier investors.

That isn't how Bitcoin works.

Bitcoin works more like a commodity/currency like gold or silver.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sceptical about Bitcoin but have learnt enough from guys like Max Keiser who bought at $0.50 and started punting it on his show Keiser Report at $1 to know that it's not a ponzi. He made many millionaires of his audience.

With the big boys having recently entered the market and are looking to hold and not sell, the price will continue to rise if that trend continues.

But I see huge economic turmoil in the future and that is why I stick with gold and silver, not sure how Bitcoin will fare in such a situation. So you can make money from Bitcoin but IMO you gotta know when the music is about to stop and get out. I could be wrong and Bitcoin does well in a economic collapse but I don't want to take that bet.
 
Prom

Prom

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SoldierMan said:
But how is it a ponzi, in a ponzi you need the new money to feed the earlier investors.

That isn't how Bitcoin works.

Bitcoin works more like a commodity/currency like gold or silver.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sceptical about Bitcoin but have learnt enough from guys like Max Keiser who bought at $0.50 and started punting it on his show Keiser Report at $1 to know that it's not a ponzi. He made many millionaires of his audience.

With the big boys having recently entered the market and are looking to hold and not sell, the price will continue to rise if that trend continues.

But I see huge economic turmoil in the future and that is why I stick with gold and silver, not sure how Bitcoin will fare in such a situation. So you can make money from Bitcoin but IMO you gotta know when the music is about to stop and get out. I could be wrong and Bitcoin does well in a economic collapse but I don't want to take that bet.
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You just described what a ponzi scheme is and then what Bitcoin is. Yeah the tech behind it has value but then the people behind it have no vision and are too closed minded to make it materialise. Currently it's a solution looking for an actual problem as everything it does is already done in better and cheaper ways. Same with the whole DeFi mess as the whole thing is based on people trading anonymously and without kyc something that's designed for anonymity so it's circular.

And I see things like gold and silver as stores of value as the same btw as they have no real utility any more beyond being used as a store of value.
 
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SoldierMan

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Prom said:
You just described what a ponzi scheme is and then what Bitcoin is. Yeah the tech behind it has value but then the people behind it have no vision and are too closed minded to make it materialise. Currently it's a solution looking for an actual problem as everything it does is already done in better and cheaper ways. Same with the whole DeFi mess as the whole thing is based on people trading anonymously and without kyc something that's designed for anonymity so it's circular.

And I see things like gold and silver as stores of value as the same btw as they have no real utility any more beyond being used as a store of value.
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Without silver there is no solar panels or electric vehicles. The REAL silver market is scarce. Take out all the fake paper silver and you have a market that is ready to explode once the manipulation stops. Gold has been money for thousands of years and will continue to be so, if it wasn't manipulated it would have increased in price by a lot more. If you think that is a conspiracy then you don't follow financial news. JP Morgan was fined $1 billion, yes $1 billion, for manipulating the gold market. Despite that they and others don't have total control and the market continues to rise. Once a crisis hits all bets are off.

This is basic stuff, Bitcoin doesn't need new money to keep the old investor's Bitcoin at it's current value, it is completely different from a ponzi.
 
Prom

Prom

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SoldierMan said:
Without silver there is no solar panels or electric vehicles. The REAL silver market is scarce. Take out all the fake paper silver and you have a market that is ready to explode once the manipulation stops. Gold has been money for thousands of years and will continue to be so, if it wasn't manipulated it would have increased in price by a lot more. If you think that is a conspiracy then you don't follow financial news. JP Morgan was fined $1 billion, yes $1 billion, for manipulating the gold market. Despite that they and others don't have total control and the market continues to rise. Once a crisis hits all bets are off.

This is basic stuff, Bitcoin doesn't need new money to keep the old investor's Bitcoin at it's current value, it is completely different from a ponzi.
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Point taken but with gold I don't see it used in large quantities and all the gold that's used is mainly reused and recycled. There is no gold standard any more which also rests on buy in anyway. It may be manipulation but I don't see how that impacts its utility.

As for Bitcoin everybody is looking at a higher payoff and that can only happen if new people buy at a higher price. There is no infinite supply of greater fools.
 
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Prom

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Spizz said:
He’s right. A ponzi scheme uses new money to pay off old investments with no underlying security. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. That’s not what’s happening with crypto currency.
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What is happening with crypto?
 
Jings

Jings

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In the news, Snoop Dogg is on board the Doge rocket ship. Will he and Elon aim for 4.20 USD per Doge?
 
Spizz

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Prom said:
Right, everyone just deludes themselves.
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No. People are conned into joining with the promise of great returns. The promise is if A invests 100 he will get 200 back. To give him 200 back you need to recruit B and C to invest 100 each, and so on.
 
Prom

Prom

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Spizz said:
No. People are conned into joining with the promise of great returns. The promise is if A invests 100 he will get 200 back. To give him 200 back you need to recruit B and C to invest 100 each, and so on.
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So it IS a ponzi then.
 
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Paul Hjul

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Spizz said:
Not that. A Ponzi scheme needs new money to pay PROMISED dividends to previous investors. There are no promises in crypto.
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I think its a little more naunced. The claim that cryptoassets are Ponzi schemes is certainly false (although many contemporary Ponzi schemes involve claims of cryptoassets at play) but there is a Ponzi-esque risk in the market. It is a lot closer to a tulip craze than anything else. People are valuing the asset on the basis of believing in a greater fool.


Certain bubble effects (and Keynesian beauty contests) are definitely at play, there is also a desire from some quarters to rely on misinformation in order to hype the position. This makes pump and dump outcomes all to easy . Ponzi is the wrong word for this but so many things are called Ponzi schemes that have the same character.

So if you are going to do things like call fractional reserve banking or social security or the like a Ponzi scheme then you have to use that widened brush to include bitcoin and Elon Musk.
 
Spizz

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Paul Hjul said:
I think its a little more naunced. The claim that cryptoassets are Ponzi schemes is certainly false (although many contemporary Ponzi schemes involve claims of cryptoassets at play) but there is a Ponzi-esque risk in the market. It is a lot closer to a tulip craze than anything else. People are valuing the asset on the basis of believing in a greater fool.


Certain bubble effects (and Keynesian beauty contests) are definitely at play, there is also a desire from some quarters to rely on misinformation in order to hype the position. This makes pump and dump outcomes all to easy . Ponzi is the wrong word for this but so many things are called Ponzi schemes that have the same character.

So if you are going to do things like call fractional reserve banking or social security or the like a Ponzi scheme then you have to use that widened brush to include bitcoin and Elon Musk.
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I understand the comparison and I get the nuances, but the point still remains none of these are a Ponzi scheme. Just like cryptocurrency is not either.
 
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