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Nicholas

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Sonikku said:
Cost-cutting and maximizing profits..
Same reason why anything 4K is 6x the price of Full HD stuff, despite the fact that 4K is already well established and countries like Japan are busy with 8K
Can get FULL HD camcorder for cheap. Same size machine recording at 4K is like 6x the price. Also when Full HD camcorders came out they weren't that expensive either since I've owned a few. But ja, going 4K is just not possible without selling a kidney.
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1080p is where I am at. :)
 
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Sinbad

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Nicholas said:
Um....I have heard the expression "economy of scale" but still haven't tried to find out what it means. :oops:
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It's cheaper to build/produce things in higher quantities, as your fixed costs are spread across a larger number of products, and it's often cheaper to source raw materials in larger quantities.

So going larger scale means it's more economic per unit produced.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
 
Sonikku

Sonikku

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Slaapstad
Sinbad said:
It's cheaper to build/produce things in higher quantities, as your fixed costs are spread across a larger number of products, and it's often cheaper to source raw materials in larger quantities.

So going larger scale means it's more economic per unit produced.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
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When it comes to consumer electronics its true to an extent. The greed of the shareholders and CEO are also a factor that is often overlooked. I speak from decades of experience.
 
Johnatan56

Johnatan56

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Vienna
Sonikku said:
Cost-cutting and maximizing profits..
Same reason why anything 4K is 6x the price of Full HD stuff, despite the fact that 4K is already well established and countries like Japan are busy with 8K
Can get FULL HD camcorder for cheap. Same size machine recording at 4K is like 6x the price. Also when Full HD camcorders came out they weren't that expensive either since I've owned a few. But ja, going 4K is just not possible without selling a kidney.
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Your rants are strange.

It has to do with age and complexity of the production/supply chain.

On average, normal HD is end of life, so basically paid off completely, so you're kind of only paying for material coming in, workers time, and selling/support, with most of that support basically being non-existent at this price tier since very proven tech so know exactly how long it will last/very rare to ever break under warranty.

Full HD same thing, except not fully paid off yet, and the entire chain is a bit more complex, so higher skilled workers, etc.,

4k is a modern supply chain for most TV techs, so not paid off at all.

And doing it by resolution is a bit wrong, it's more the TV tech. You need to hit certain latency targets, etc., which is why TVs are cheaper than same size monitors. Economies of scale also have a huge impact, since e.g. can do tens of phone screens or one TV, TV can have 1-3 dead pixels and it's fine, but can't do that for a monitor (usually has to be under 3), and phones aren't allowed to have any, but you can cut around it more easily.

That dead pixel thing is the same for electronics btw, here is a calc: http://cloud.mooreelite.com/tools/die-yield-calculator/index.html
It's why Ryzen allowed AMD's profit to shoot up, since chiplet design means they can have way smaller core complexes and get away with worse die yields as can cut around it, meanwhile intel (up until meteor lake, just got released, calling it "tiles") had to have one giant CPU with no defect on it, which made costs way higher.

(https://www.nextplatform.com/2021/06/09/amd-on-why-chiplets-and-why-now/)
 
Sonikku

Sonikku

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Oct 16, 2023
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408
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Slaapstad
Johnatan56 said:
Your rants are strange.

It has to do with age and complexity of the production/supply chain.

On average, normal HD is end of life, so basically paid off completely, so you're kind of only paying for material coming in, workers time, and selling/support, with most of that support basically being non-existent at this price tier since very proven tech so know exactly how long it will last/very rare to ever break under warranty.

Full HD same thing, except not fully paid off yet, and the entire chain is a bit more complex, so higher skilled workers, etc.,

4k is a modern supply chain for most TV techs, so not paid off at all.

And doing it by resolution is a bit wrong, it's more the TV tech. You need to hit certain latency targets, etc., which is why TVs are cheaper than same size monitors. Economies of scale also have a huge impact, since e.g. can do tens of phone screens or one TV, TV can have 1-3 dead pixels and it's fine, but can't do that for a monitor (usually has to be under 3), and phones aren't allowed to have any, but you can cut around it more easily.

That dead pixel thing is the same for electronics btw, here is a calc: http://cloud.mooreelite.com/tools/die-yield-calculator/index.html
It's why Ryzen allowed AMD's profit to shoot up, since chiplet design means they can have way smaller core complexes and get away with worse die yields as can cut around it, meanwhile intel (up until meteor lake, just got released, calling it "tiles") had to have one giant CPU with no defect on it, which made costs way higher.

(https://www.nextplatform.com/2021/06/09/amd-on-why-chiplets-and-why-now/)
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It's not a rant and nor is it strange.
The semiconductor industry at the consumer electronics level is not the same as the vendors who service the PC/server market. Always knew this.
The chipsets for TVs are usually made by Japanese companies (Panasonic, SONY, etc) along with Chinese clones/competes.
These chipsets have a limited lifespan usually because they deprecate i.e. manufacturers discontinue them when technology moves on. This is why I find it weird that HD ready TVs are still made when you cannot get the main processing ASIC anymore and all they offer is 4K nowadays.

You cannot compare the PC semiconductor market to the regular market that produces parts for general mass goods and consumer electronics.
Intel and AMD do not play in that space anyway.
 
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Rudolph Hart

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Jun 21, 2020
Messages
830
Sonikku said:
It's not a rant and nor is it strange.
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Received reality is reality. If people you interact with believe that you’re ranting, then for all intents and purposes, you are ranting.

It makes little difference what you think, because people are going to react and respond to how you come across, not how you believe you come across.
 
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Rudolph Hart

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Jun 21, 2020
Messages
830
Sonikku said:
So then if you're upset then tell me so, I'll not come here again
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Not upset at all. Just seems you’re angry at something and need to get it of your chest. Here’s as good a place to do that as any, so feel free to carry on. But you should know that you do come across as ranting - I suspect if you read some of your posts in a year’s time you’ll be mildly surprised at their tone.
 
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Nicholas

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Rudolph Hart said:
Not upset at all. Just seems you’re angry at something and need to get it of your chest. Here’s as good a place to do that as any, so feel free to carry on. But you should know that you do come across as ranting - I suspect if you read some of your posts in a year’s time you’ll be mildly surprised at their tone.
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Work has been rough?
 
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Nicholas

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Jun 23, 2020
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Location
East London
Someone took our water meter again, so there is water running down the pavement and, of course, no water for us.
Our house mother has tried calling the municipal water department, but whoever answers the phone is absent.
 
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