Political Trivia - Left versus Right

[[)roi(]]

Purpose
This purpose of this thread is to have a civil debate of what constitutes left versus right political ideologies; to both testi your political knowledge and to hopefully impart knowledge that others may be unaware of.

Left or Right?
To start this off, let's assess which of the following you currently deem to be politically left or politically right?

1. Classical Liberalism
2. Liberalism
3. Progressivism
4. Conservatism
5. Socialism
6. Fascism
7. Communism
8. Nazism

...and yes this is not as superficial as it may seem; what you think you know may very well be the inverse.
Naturally to challenge what you deem a misconception will require proof and not just conjecture; facts not feelings.

I will postpone my answers to the left or right choices until we've seen a few answers; because I'd prefer to not taint your current belief at the onset. Forgo any justification for now; I suggest we start that once I have posted my answers.

 

[satanboy]

I fell asleep at ideology no 1

 

[LD50]

Left or Right?
To start this off, let's assess which of the following you currently deem to be politically left or politically right?

1. Classical Liberalism - LEFT
2. Liberalism - LEFT
3. Progressivism - LEFT
4. Conservatism - RIGHT
5. Socialism - LEFT
6. Fascism - RIGHT
7. Communism - LEFT
8. Nazism - RIGHT

Not stipulating far-left or right

 

[biometrics]

Not stipulating far-left or right

I would answer the same @LD50 has.

 

[Urist]

shot right, shot left, to the stop sign, skip pass the robot to the right, go about 5km turn left, turn right on the N1, when you reach the N3 turn left, durbs will be on your right after about 7 hours.
You need to add a liberal and authoritarian dimension.

 

[[)roi(]]

Not stipulating far-left or right

Sure, if you prefer, use:

• Centre right
• Centre left
• Right
• Left
• Far right
• Far left

Or simplistically just: left, centre, right

 

[[)roi(]]

shot right, shot left, to the stop sign, skip pass the robot to the right, go about 5km turn left, turn right on the N1, when you reach the N3 turn left, durbs will be on your right after about 7 hours.
You need to add a liberal and authoritarian dimension.

Liberal is included (2 types)
Authoritarian is a too gray area, similarly totalitarianism or collectivism .. they're more traits than ideologically differential.

 

[Urist]

Liberal is included (2 types)
Authoritarian is a too gray area, similarly totalitarianism or collectivism .. they're more traits than ideologically differential.

this makes more sense to me. would like to believe i`m down there in the vast sea, guess it depends on Where you're standing, though i think most of us can agree that it's the tops and bottoms of the quadrant that's the problem.

 

[[)roi(]]

View attachment 3446
this makes more sense to me. would like to believe i`m down there in the vast sea, guess it depends on Where you're standing, though i think most of us can agree that it's the tops and bottoms of the quadrant that's the problem.

For conciseness of answers ; use your chart and label the ideologies 1 through 8

 

[Urist]

clasic liberalism is libertarianism
liberalism is to the left of conservatism, both want more government
Progressivism is to the left of that, bottom left, post-modernist
socialism is to the left and wants more government
communism is authoritarian far left
nazism is a form of fascism, and if the left-right scale is about communist vs capitalist ideology, i`m not sure why it's commonly placed to the far right. imo facism can be a form of communism ala north korea., just means us vs them and heavily authoritarian. So maybe middle top
It's like we put this race layer over a political spectrum about how free markets are supposed to be, and how much government intervention is required, which doesn't make sense to me at all.

 

[[)roi(]]

clasic liberalism is libertarianism
liberalism is to the left of conservatism, both want more government
Progressivism is to the left of that, bottom left, post-modernist
socialism is to the left and wants more government
communism is authoritarian far left
nazism is a form of fascism, and if the left-right scale is about communist vs capitalist ideology, i`m not sure why it's commonly placed to the far right. imo facism can be a form of communism ala north korea., just means us vs them and heavily authoritarian. So maybe middle top
It's like we put this race layer over a political spectrum about how free markets are supposed to be, and how much government intervention is required, which doesn't make sense to me at all.

Capitalism at the dawn of socialism / communism was regarded an antithetical; that's no longer the case e.g. as China has proved; its essentially coupled Marxist style communism with more outwardly crony capitalist system, whereas inwardly they've allowed somewhat more autonomy. These are stark contrasts to Stalin style communism and Mao Zedong; both which failed largely because of economic issues.

As for classical liberalism and liberalism (sometimes referred to as modern liberalism); I separate the two because although they sound similar they are instead distinctly different; classical liberalism is that which was defined by e.g. John Locke, whereas modern liberalism leans substantially left. In the US e.g. liberalism has evolved into a term more synonymous with modern liberalism and no longer classical liberalism of the past.

As for progressivism it's a catch al term for the left; including e.g. modern liberalism, socialism, communism...

I'l reserve the rest of my comments in case there are more left / right posts.

 

[Urist]

Capitalism at the dawn of socialism / communism was regarded an antithetical; that's no longer the case e.g. as China has proved; its essentially coupled Marxist style communism with more outwardly crony capitalist system, whereas inwardly they've allowed somewhat more autonomy. These are stark contrasts to Stalin style communism and Mao Zedong; both which failed largely because of economic issues.

As for classical liberalism and liberalism (sometimes referred to as modern liberalism); I separate the two because although they sound similar they are instead distinctly different; classical liberalism is that which was defined by e.g. John Locke, whereas modern liberalism leans substantially left. In the US e.g. liberalism has evolved into a term more synonymous with modern liberalism and no longer classical liberalism of the past.

As for progressivism it's a catch al term for the left; including e.g. modern liberalism, socialism, communism...

I'l reserve the rest of my comments in case there are more left / right posts.

I don't know about these naming coventions, with the intellectuals at universities being predominantly leftist, and social 'science' being everything but scientifically objective.
It seems to me that everything bad was lumped together with the political right, including racism, which is a form of predudice and discrimination and not a political compass thing, the left and right can be racist, as proven by bra Julias. While they lumped together nice words like progressive and liberal to the left
With their thought policing, modern american liberalism is everything but liberal.
Though, I don't know if we should also turn this forum into a hive of opinionated politicians, things seem pretty chill so far and we should maybe try to avoid turning this into another mybb.

 

[LD50]

My head hurts and it's not alcohol related.

 

[Textile Guy]

 

[[)roi(]]

I don't know about these naming coventions, with the intellectuals at universities being predominantly leftist, and social 'science' being everything but scientifically objective.
It seems to me that everything bad was lumped together with the political right, including racism, which is a form of predudice and discrimination and not a political compass thing, the left and right can be racist, as proven by bra Julias. While they lumped together nice words like progressive and liberal to the left
With their thought policing, modern american liberalism is everything but liberal.
Though, I don't know if we should also turn this forum into a hive of opinionated politicians, things seem pretty chill so far and we should maybe try to avoid turning this into another mybb.

We're going to get into contentious grounds, because as I will prove things are not what they seem, or what they have been portrayed to be I.e. as I said earlier the inverse of what many people believe is true.

Superficially it's easy to lump everything on the opposing side, but that breaks down when actions and history are examined in more detail and surprisingly enough it even breaks down when history is examined. Many may initially reason that this borders on conspiracy; I initially was concerned about that; at least until the evidence becomes so overwhelming that it's hard to ignore. I know I'm talking without context, but at this point that is on purpose; because I first wanted to gauge everyone's current belief before introducing evidence to the contrary.

I too as example shared an opinion similar to your graphic illustrates; however overtime (Ia few centuries) I irregularly delved into what kept concerning me about what we were told about history versus the what had occurred. When I delved below the superficially things didn't quite hold up. Why was the most intriguing part of course, which I'l share in due course. Hint: there's propaganda

As for this becoming another MyBB; that only happens with an immature audience; keeping our emotions in check and similar your ideological leanings will be important to grok this, and unlike MyBB, hopefully there never will be a group of biased moderators that flip the scales the way they prefer. All I can ask is for everyone to be civil; I understand this is not everyone's cup of tea; but I think if you bear with this thread it can be a very enlightening look into history in order to lift the veil on present day politics.

 

[[)roi(]]

My head hurts and it's not alcohol related.

Drink a homemade beer, it'll either make this easier to get through or you'll just not care.

 

[[)roi(]]

View attachment 3465

I.e. independents.

 

[[)roi(]]

I'l share my placements of the 8 ideologies by tomorrow afternoon / evening.

Remember this should never be about calling anyone a moron for not knowing something; this I'm hoping is an adult conservation where evidence can be shared without feelings coming into; I certainly on the political spectrum share nothing in common with anyone who thinks everyone coming from of a political group is all good.

Humans have never been even close to what can be considered angelic; and unless it's a life long oarter or trustworthy friend; a good tablespoon of sceptism is always called for when dealing with politics and especially politicians.

It is a pleasant world we live in, sir, a very pleasant world. There are bad people in it, Mr. Richard, but if there were no bad people, there would be no good lawyers.
-- Charles Dickens

Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers.
― George R.R. Martin

 

[Urist]

I too as example shared an opinion similar to your graphic illustrates; however overtime (Ia few centuries) I irregularly delved into what kept concerning me about what we were told about history versus the what had occurred. When I delved below the superficially things didn't quite hold up. Why was the most intriguing part of course, which I'l share in due course. Hint: there's propaganda

Can't argue too much with that, we like a low resolution world where everything to the left is bleeding heart libtard and everything to the right is Nazi fascist, it takes about 2 seconds of thinking about the left vs. right dynamic to realize it doesn't make sense... well, at least the naming of the political beliefs and what it's associated with.
The way I see the world is globalist vs nationalist, developed vs. developing, Libertarian vs. Authoritarian. traditional, command, and market economies etc. Can't put all those metrics into one axis and call it left vs. right.
The four quadrants makes a little more sense to me, but it would make more sense if it was a horseshoe with with authoritarian identity politics at the poles which was the nasty part of both the Nazi and Leninist regimes.
In germany they went after the Jews, cripples, gays and other "undesirables", in russia it was a class thing, in cambodia they went after the intellectuals, in all cases identity politics.

 

[[)roi(]]

Can't argue too much with that, we like a low resolution world where everything to the left is bleeding heart libtard and everything to the right is Nazi fascist, it takes about 2 seconds of thinking about the left vs. right dynamic to realize it doesn't make sense... well, at least the naming of the political beliefs and what it's associated with.
The way I see the world is globalist vs nationalist, developed vs. developing, Libertarian vs. Authoritarian. traditional, command, and market economies etc. Can't put all those metrics into one axis and call it left vs. right.
The four quadrants makes a little more sense to me, but it would make more sense if it was a horseshoe with with authoritarian identity politics at the poles which was the nasty part of both the Nazi and Leninist regimes.
In germany they went after the Jews, cripples, gays and other "undesirables", in russia it was a class thing, in cambodia they went after the intellectuals, in all cases identity politics.

That's a great starting point; sounds like we're on a similar page.

I like to separate ideologies from traits; ideologies are IMO more left/ right, whereas traits like capitalism are for the most part flexible and can co-exist on both sides.