Black Lives Matter was never about uplifting Blacks

TwoPunnyFourWords

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Yes privilege is a loaded term, but context is important and in my situation it’s a label I accept with a smile and a certain amount of humility. I didn’t ask for it but I acknowledge it, and hope I can assist those less privileged by weaponising that acceptance.

But sure, I’ll bet the poor sods breaking rocks in the gulag didn’t give much thought to their skin colour. As I said, it’s all about levels.
How the fuck is one supposed to "weaponise" that acceptance, exactly?
 

Spizz

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How the fuck is one supposed to "weaponise" that acceptance, exactly?

By acknowledging the privilege and helping those who through the accident of birth, have not had the opportunities that I have had.
 

Blantyre

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I really don't get this obsession that right wing South Africans seem to have with US politics.

It goes both ways, but yes, there are many Ben Shapiro wannabes in SA, Jonathan Witt and Roman Cabanac are two that come to mind.

The left also does so, I don't get it because often it's hard to apply American concepts to SA due to nuance.
 

Spizz

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How is that a weapon in any meaningful sense?

It’s a weapon in a positive sense in that it gives me an extra angle (cliche=ammunition) to understand different people from different backgrounds. Ignorance or failure to acknowledge people who come from poverty through no fault of their own, and who believe that hard work is all that’s required to lift people out of their shitpile seems to be a prevalent thought amongst many white South Africans.

But if the term makes no sense to you, move on. It was a throwaway that felt okay in context in the sentence.
 

TwoPunnyFourWords

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It’s a weapon in a positive sense in that it gives me an extra angle (cliche=ammunition) to understand different people from different backgrounds. Ignorance or failure to acknowledge people who come from poverty through no fault of their own, and who believe that hard work is all that’s required to lift people out of their shitpile seems to be a prevalent thought amongst many white South Africans.

But if the term makes no sense to you, move on. It was a throwaway that felt okay in context in the sentence.

Struggle sessions were a form of public humiliation and torture used by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) at various times in the Mao era, particularly during the years immediately before and after the establishment of the People's Republic of China (PRC) and during the Cultural Revolution.[1][2] The aim of struggle sessions was to shape public opinion, as well as to humiliate, persecute, or execute political rivals and those deemed class enemies.[3]

In general, the victim of a struggle session was forced to admit various crimes before a crowd of people who would verbally and physically abuse the victim until they confessed. Struggle sessions were often held at the workplace of the accused, but they were sometimes conducted in sports stadiums where large crowds would gather if the target was well-known.[3]
Weaponising privilege takes many forms, I merely had to be sure yours was not one of the forms I had cause to worry about, such as what's quoted above.

I think "utilise" might be a more neutral descriptor, but perhaps you feel that might also give the wrong impression.

I gotta be honest with you, though, I think the only thing you're accomplishing is making yourself feel better about the situation.
 

Spizz

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Weaponising privilege takes many forms, I merely had to be sure yours was not one of the forms I had cause to worry about, such as what's quoted above.

I think "utilise" might be a more neutral descriptor, but perhaps you feel that might also give the wrong impression.

I gotta be honest with you, though, I think the only thing you're accomplishing is making yourself feel better about the situation.

Yeah, I can accept that. It’s the norm in South Africa among the hand wringing liberals.

I’m not South African and I won’t be justifying myself here either, but if we ever met you’d know otherwise ;)
 

TwoPunnyFourWords

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Yeah, I can accept that. It’s the norm in South Africa among the hand wringing liberals.
I don't know which norm you are referring to.

I’m not South African and I won’t be justifying myself here either, but if we ever met you’d know otherwise ;)
Not sure what the South African thing has to do with anything. Here's an example of what I mean: according to a normal distribution of IQ scores, the statistical odds are that I could count on one hand the number of people in my high school who could match my natural ability in some sort of competitive performance. This makes me privileged, but what does my humble brag do for people who aren't as fortunate as I? I'm not opening doors of opportunity for them by telling everyone how smart I am.
 

EADC

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I don't know which norm you are referring to.


Not sure what the South African thing has to do with anything. Here's an example of what I mean: according to a normal distribution of IQ scores, the statistical odds are that I could count on one hand the number of people in my high school who could match my natural ability in some sort of competitive performance. This makes me privileged, but what does my humble brag do for people who aren't as fortunate as I? I'm not opening doors of opportunity for them by telling everyone how smart I am.

You missing the point and trying to argue the wrong point.
 

TwoPunnyFourWords

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It is a gift.
You know, I too have a gift. It’s called exposing pseudoliberals, allow me to show you how it works.

(Oh, but before we start, one reminder, innocence until proven guilty has been the standard of justice basically in all of recorded history because societies that switch to guilty until proven innocent don’t survive long enough to record much of anything.)

Here is an example of a pseudoliberal denouncing liberal values as white supremacy/nazism, an all to common fad these days:

In even shorter form, "fuck off back to Stormfront, you dissembling chunk of solidified whale sputum"
(Note, I can’t go back to someplace I’ve never been, but let’s not worry about that now.)

"But that’s not denouncing liberalism!", I can already hear you saying, so here comes the proof. In the case of this particular pseudoliberal, an appeal to empirically rigorous and peer reviewed conclusions is to be accepted above all others, if we are to take him at his disingenuous words. So let’s give it to him.


Twin studies of adult individuals have found a heritability of IQ between 57% and 73%[6] with the most recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80%.[7] IQ goes from being weakly correlated with genetics for children, to being strongly correlated with genetics for late teens and adults. The heritability of IQ increases with age and reaches an asymptote at 18–20 years of age and continues at that level well into adulthood. However, poor prenatal environment, malnutrition and disease are known to have lifelong deleterious effects.[8][9]


As we can see from these documents, by the age of adulthood, IQ score is determined primarily by genetic components, which accounts for about 80% of the variance. Slice that number whichever way you like, what you are unlikely to be able to do is explain a reliable 15 point variance in average IQ scores between two arbitrary population groups in terms of social factors. That’s the measured average IQ gap between American whites and African Americans, btw. A more direct comparison of Africans without European heritage versus Europeans renders a 30 point gap, which is the dilemma South Africa is faced with. You wanna argue that race is a social construct, fine, but it doesn’t change the numbers at the end of the day.

I’m sure Bayesian analysis guy could do a Bayesian analysis to figure out what the chances are that a 30 point gap could be explained by social features when genetics controls 80% of the variance, but he won’t like the answer, so this hate fact he will simply *ignore*




Also, IQ is the single biggest predictor of socioeconomic success that we know of. If you want to get ahead in life and have a choice of being born rich, or being born smart, smart is the better choice.

In the previous example, my IQ wasn’t even high enough to be the top in my school. But you know what happens when instead it’s compared with the baseline scored by Africans in South Africa? Statistically, I can count the number of black people in the entire country who should be my statistical peers on 3 hands. The ENTIRE COUNTRY. Attempts to help people improve their IQ have been less successful than the diet industry has been at helping people lose weight, which is to say that there is no socioeconomic intervention on Earth that will change things so that black and white people achieve socioeconomic parity short of literally enslaving the whites and abandoning meritocracy altogether, FOREVER.

What I can therefore tell you, is that any analysis of "structural racism", which does not account for the possibility of genetic disparities between the population groups, will not be worth the paper it is printed on, and can be dismissed out of hand as biased nonsense that assumes guilt rather than proves it.

Now, I never liked apartheid even though it ended before I started school, and I think racially segregating people is stupid and wrong. But that doesn’t mean that white people are now responsible for the socioeconomic ills of black people for all eternity, especially when no fix exists to resolve the disparity. And the fact that I therefore reject any fucking notion that I should just accept responsbility for this, as if my guilt can be assumed, when there is no real evidence with which to convict me, does not in fact make me a closet Nazi. It just makes me someone who wants a society that won’t devolve into a bloodthirsty totalitarian nightmare as it vainly keeps escalating its attempts to accomplish the impossible, and a genuine liberal wouldn’t be so confused about their own worldview as to mistake liberalism for Nazism or to compromise their own politics so as to run interference for illiberal commies.

And so you think that I was missing the point, but as you can see, no, no I wasn’t at all. Tell me, what does Spizz’s virtue signalling accomplish besides him marking himself guilty of a crime he’s not ultimately responsible for? I mean sure, the conservative story of individual personal effort as the path to success might be a myth, but so is every other promise of success, so why single THEM out for being unrealistic? Special pleading is dumb, yo. If you want to focus on a significant difference, then focus on the fact that the narrative of self-improvement, if implemented at scale, will not get millions killed by an overbearing state authority... you can’t say the same thing about this white privilege shit.
 
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TwoPunnyFourWords

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Notice Lamont Hill, at the end, make exactly the mistake that McWhorter and Loury are worried about.

BLM and the rhetoric associated with it doesn't help anybody, it just makes everybody worse off.
 

EADC

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Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
1,373
You know, I too have a gift. It’s called exposing pseudoliberals, allow me to show you how it works.

(Oh, but before we start, one reminder, innocence until proven guilty has been the standard of justice basically in all of recorded history because societies that switch to guilty until proven innocent don’t survive long enough to record much of anything.)

Here is an example of a pseudoliberal denouncing liberal values as white supremacy/nazism, an all to common fad these days:


(Note, I can’t go back to someplace I’ve never been, but let’s not worry about that now.)

"But that’s not denouncing liberalism!", I can already hear you saying, so here comes the proof. In the case of this particular pseudoliberal, an appeal to empirically rigorous and peer reviewed conclusions is to be accepted above all others, if we are to take him at his disingenuous words. So let’s give it to him.





As we can see from these documents, by the age of adulthood, IQ score is determined primarily by genetic components, which accounts for about 80% of the variance. Slice that number whichever way you like, what you are unlikely to be able to do is explain a reliable 15 point variance in average IQ scores between two arbitrary population groups in terms of social factors. That’s the measured average IQ gap between American whites and African Americans, btw. A more direct comparison of Africans without European heritage versus Europeans renders a 30 point gap, which is the dilemma South Africa is faced with. You wanna argue that race is a social construct, fine, but it doesn’t change the numbers at the end of the day.

I’m sure Bayesian analysis guy could do a Bayesian analysis to figure out what the chances are that a 30 point gap could be explained by social features when genetics controls 80% of the variance, but he won’t like the answer, so this hate fact he will simply *ignore*




Also, IQ is the single biggest predictor of socioeconomic success that we know of. If you want to get ahead in life and have a choice of being born rich, or being born smart, smart is the better choice.

In the previous example, my IQ wasn’t even high enough to be the top in my school. But you know what happens when instead it’s compared with the baseline scored by Africans in South Africa? Statistically, I can count the number of black people in the entire country who should be my statistical peers on 3 hands. The ENTIRE COUNTRY. Attempts to help people improve their IQ have been less successful than the diet industry has been at helping people lose weight, which is to say that there is no socioeconomic intervention on Earth that will change things so that black and white people achieve socioeconomic parity short of literally enslaving the whites and abandoning meritocracy altogether, FOREVER.

What I can therefore tell you, is that any analysis of "structural racism", which does not account for the possibility of genetic disparities between the population groups, will not be worth the paper it is printed on, and can be dismissed out of hand as biased nonsense that assumes guilt rather than proves it.

Now, I never liked apartheid even though it ended before I started school, and I think racially segregating people is stupid and wrong. But that doesn’t mean that white people are now responsible for the socioeconomic ills of black people for all eternity, especially when no fix exists to resolve the disparity. And the fact that I therefore reject any fucking notion that I should just accept responsbility for this, as if my guilt can be assumed, when there is no real evidence with which to convict me, does not in fact make me a closet Nazi. It just makes me someone who wants a society that won’t devolve into a bloodthirsty totalitarian nightmare as it vainly keeps escalating its attempts to accomplish the impossible, and a genuine liberal wouldn’t be so confused about their own worldview as to mistake liberalism for Nazism or to compromise their own politics so as to run interference for illiberal commies.

And so you think that I was missing the point, but as you can see, no, no I wasn’t at all. Tell me, what does Spizz’s virtue signalling accomplish besides him marking himself guilty of a crime he’s not ultimately responsible for? I mean sure, the conservative story of individual personal effort as the path to success might be a myth, but so is every other promise of success, so why single THEM out for being unrealistic? Special pleading is dumb, yo. If you want to focus on a significant difference, then focus on the fact that the narrative of self-improvement, if implemented at scale, will not get millions killed by an overbearing state authority... you can’t say the same thing about this white privilege shit.

Cool story bro.
 

TwoPunnyFourWords

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230
Your gift might be exposing pseudoliberals, mine is not caring what pseudointellectual's post.

But you do you bud, this is a place for everyone.
I did do me, and it obviously didn't bother you, so I guess mischief managed? ;)
 
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